On one side, it is good to have consumer friendly regulation like manufacturers to be forced to support right to repair. But on the opposite side, lots of bullshit requirements again like the energy labelling, that will do that we have less products, mostly from big actors only, and more expensive due the then useless regulation barrier.
And the mixed feeling is stronger for things like manufacturers that needs to provide support for the os for 5 years and more. Sure, I'm happy that it applies to big tech like apple, Google and Samsung, when it is what I'm expecting.
But, I, as a consumer, I would like some times to be able to buy other products, cheaper, crappier (for a burner or test devices for example), and to have small actors being able the try innovation without needing a 500 millions backing to be able to see in Europe.
What I would have preferred is a law more oriented on consumer rights than manufacturing regulation:
Forbidding more clearly explicit monopolistic behaviors like what is done with app store; and for right to repair and co, not needing the company to provide support for repair for 5 years but that if they don't, or after 5 years, that they have to release in open source the software, blueprints or tools that are needed to be able to support your own device yourself.
nottorp [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I was going to agree with you but then I remembered that while I don't care about energy labels when I decide to buy a phone or tablet...
... I know far less about, say, refrigerators. So last time i needed one i bought the one with the most economic energy label from the ones I liked.
pjc50 [3 hidden]5 mins ago
> to have small actors being able the try innovation
Yes. While I'm generally in favor of the EU regulatory approach they need to learn about and understand the concept of "small business", including the fact that you can't get a new large EU business without it going through the small business stage. There should be a lot more de minimis exemptions from the whole CE marking system.
danieldk [3 hidden]5 mins ago
availability of operating system upgrades for longer periods (at least 5 years from the date of the end of placement on the market of the last unit of a product model)
This is so great! A lot of manufacturers were counting from the date of introduction. A lot of phones only had a 3 year support period. If they are on the market for two years, the people buying last would only get one year of support. This swaps to the last date of sale, which is much more consumer-friendly. I still have to read up on what operating system upgrades entails.
rules on disassembly and repair, including obligations for producers to make critical spare parts available within 5-10 working days, and for 7 years after the end of sales of the product model on the EU market
Awesome!
myrmidon [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Nice page! I'm extremely happy about efforts like this. You might argue that the EU is a sprawling, wasteful bureaucracy and you would not be wrong, per se, but they made a lot of useful laws that just simply make the world a better place.
Having standardized chargers for phones and laptops is SUPER nice and would never have happened without intervention IMO.
The only equivalent for US "useful, average-citizen friendly legislation" that I recently heard about was the standardization of powertool batteries pursued by doge-- which turned out to be an april hoax when I just looked it up :(
zophiana [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Yeah, to me its crazy how anti-consumer the US is compared to the EU, just because of laws
FirmwareBurner [3 hidden]5 mins ago
This law has more to do with the environment/Energy usage than with the consumer. And the US consumer cares a lot less about energy usage since they're much more energy and monetarily rich than the EU.
If they paid German gas and electricity prices for example while having European wages, they'd care a lot more about energy consumption, believe that.
myrmidon [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I think regulation like this is just strictly good (even from US perspective/priorities), because you can not realistically "vote with your wallet" for environment-friendly products when relevant info is obfuscated, falsified or not available at all.
Just ignoring energy efficiency/repairability labelling is always an option for consumers on the other hand.
> If they paid German gas and electricity prices for example while having European wages, they'd care a lot more.
I'm not so sure on this; I think environmental concerns are mainly culture driven I think, because even after all the price increases over the last decade, especially electricity is still dirt cheap compared to e.g. rent, basically everywhere.
amarcheschi [3 hidden]5 mins ago
The article talks about ecodesign requirements as well, such as spare parts needing to be available for some years after the product isn't sold, the freedom to have 3rd parties repair devices and so on. It's not only a matter of energy but consumer protection as well
nntwozz [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Sad! Thankfully there are adapters that let you combine different brands, not ideal but hopefully this will be regulated in the future.
djoldman [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I was curious so I dug into what's involved for placing a product in a particular "efficiency class." Here's the section on "electronic displays":
In the shop in my town, they sell televisions. Led ones, oled ones, big screen, the usual stuff. They have about 50 models. All have energy labels C or worse. No A, no A+, no B... Once there was an A one but the picture quality was horrible.
I'm happy to be more conscious, but someone is working against the scheme: I don't have a real choice...
bzzzt [3 hidden]5 mins ago
There's the law of conservation of energy. If you want a nice bright big screen there's no way around consuming a lot of electricity. If your baseline is a 32 inch LED screen it's not surprising a 65" OLED will have a worse energy label.
Seems most people want that nice TV more than a small, dim picture that uses less energy.
mtoner23 [3 hidden]5 mins ago
How much TV does one have to watch to impact your energy bill? Does anyone care about it's energy usage?
code-blooded [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I really like it. It makes being a more conscious customer easier and you can make your own trade-offs by looking at a product and price.
Hopefully online stores will add ability to filter by these criteria.
havaloc [3 hidden]5 mins ago
It's too bad the label won't have the number of charge cycles the battery is good for.
IanCal [3 hidden]5 mins ago
That's in the list.
> Battery endurance in cycles.
sofixa [3 hidden]5 mins ago
Key quote:
> The regulations focus on measures to extend product lifetime (reparability, upgradability, battery life). The increase in average lifetime, e.g. from 3.0 to 4.1 years for a mid-range smartphone
myrmidon [3 hidden]5 mins ago
I (unironically) love how the charts are basically "this is gonna save you money by you buying less shit/year, you're welcome".
FirmwareBurner [3 hidden]5 mins ago
If only the EU was like "you can save money and our environment by buying Chinese EVs instead of smokey German, Italian & French diesels" in the same spirit. Oh well.
It's pretty easy to regulate things that aren't made by your domestic companies.
pjc50 [3 hidden]5 mins ago
The tariffs on Chinese EVs are very unserious at the same time as subsidies are being withdrawn while the alleged deadline for phaseout of ICE is still in place.
VW showed which side they were going to bet on with Dieselgate and should get no further sympathy.
HN.zip
On one side, it is good to have consumer friendly regulation like manufacturers to be forced to support right to repair. But on the opposite side, lots of bullshit requirements again like the energy labelling, that will do that we have less products, mostly from big actors only, and more expensive due the then useless regulation barrier.
And the mixed feeling is stronger for things like manufacturers that needs to provide support for the os for 5 years and more. Sure, I'm happy that it applies to big tech like apple, Google and Samsung, when it is what I'm expecting. But, I, as a consumer, I would like some times to be able to buy other products, cheaper, crappier (for a burner or test devices for example), and to have small actors being able the try innovation without needing a 500 millions backing to be able to see in Europe.
What I would have preferred is a law more oriented on consumer rights than manufacturing regulation: Forbidding more clearly explicit monopolistic behaviors like what is done with app store; and for right to repair and co, not needing the company to provide support for repair for 5 years but that if they don't, or after 5 years, that they have to release in open source the software, blueprints or tools that are needed to be able to support your own device yourself.
... I know far less about, say, refrigerators. So last time i needed one i bought the one with the most economic energy label from the ones I liked.
Yes. While I'm generally in favor of the EU regulatory approach they need to learn about and understand the concept of "small business", including the fact that you can't get a new large EU business without it going through the small business stage. There should be a lot more de minimis exemptions from the whole CE marking system.
This is so great! A lot of manufacturers were counting from the date of introduction. A lot of phones only had a 3 year support period. If they are on the market for two years, the people buying last would only get one year of support. This swaps to the last date of sale, which is much more consumer-friendly. I still have to read up on what operating system upgrades entails.
rules on disassembly and repair, including obligations for producers to make critical spare parts available within 5-10 working days, and for 7 years after the end of sales of the product model on the EU market
Awesome!
Having standardized chargers for phones and laptops is SUPER nice and would never have happened without intervention IMO.
The only equivalent for US "useful, average-citizen friendly legislation" that I recently heard about was the standardization of powertool batteries pursued by doge-- which turned out to be an april hoax when I just looked it up :(
If they paid German gas and electricity prices for example while having European wages, they'd care a lot more about energy consumption, believe that.
Just ignoring energy efficiency/repairability labelling is always an option for consumers on the other hand.
> If they paid German gas and electricity prices for example while having European wages, they'd care a lot more.
I'm not so sure on this; I think environmental concerns are mainly culture driven I think, because even after all the price increases over the last decade, especially electricity is still dirt cheap compared to e.g. rent, basically everywhere.
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?toc=OJ%3AL%3...
I'm happy to be more conscious, but someone is working against the scheme: I don't have a real choice...
Seems most people want that nice TV more than a small, dim picture that uses less energy.
Hopefully online stores will add ability to filter by these criteria.
> Battery endurance in cycles.
> The regulations focus on measures to extend product lifetime (reparability, upgradability, battery life). The increase in average lifetime, e.g. from 3.0 to 4.1 years for a mid-range smartphone
It's pretty easy to regulate things that aren't made by your domestic companies.
VW showed which side they were going to bet on with Dieselgate and should get no further sympathy.